Defense witness Allaso Travesser, Direct and Cross

Michael Travesser / Wayne Bent at sunset

Defense witness Allaso Travesser - By Sara Montoya, plus cross, by Emilio Chavez

Judge Baca: You may proceed.

Ms. Montoya: Would you please state your name for the jury.

Allaso Travesser: My name is Allaso Michael Travesser.

Ms. Montoya: And I know that you have the same last name as our last witness Gabriel Travesser. Are you any relation to him?

Allaso Travesser: I’m not a blood relation to him.

Ms. Montoya: Ok. As a member of the LOR Church, are you aware of spiritual healings that have gone on in or through the church?

Allaso Travesser: I am.

Ms. Montoya: And how are you aware of that?

Allaso Travesser: Well, I’m personally very aware of it. I’ve experienced it myself.

Ms. Montoya: Can you tell me about that experience?

Allaso Travesser: Well, actually there’s been several experiences. Probably the most significant one to my own experience was a time when... There was a time when I had been feeling, just feeling especially needy spiritually. I don’t remember exactly the circumstances and I had been fasting for a time and someone had told Michael that I had been fasting and he became, he was concerned about me and wanted to come and visit me and see how I was doing, and just check on me. And so he came over to my house and we talked for awhile. And I don’t remember too much about our conversation, but it was, we didn’t spend a lot of time talking, but I remember just, just feeling that everything was ok.

And you know, he wasn’t instructing me what to do, whether to fast or to not fast, but as he started to leave I... I felt like, I was feeling very drawn to Michael and I felt like I had just wanted a little something more and I was feeling like I just wanted to embrace him. And I wanted him to embrace me and I told him that. And he said... He thought for a moment and he said, "Well here’s what I’d like you to do." And he asked me to lay down on the floor, and which I did. And he knelt down beside me and he took both of his hands and he just laid them on my chest, just softly, and he just, we both were just in this position for quite some time. And he had his eyes closed and was just silent for several minutes, a good period of time and then he, he just prayed a very simple prayer. He just said, "Father heal Praise," and that was it. He didn’t say anything more than that.

Ms. Montoya: Could you explain why he would say, "Praise?"

Allaso Travesser: Oh uhm... Praise is another name that I go by in the land.

Ms. Montoya: And after he spoke the prayer, what happened?

Allaso Travesser: Well, we were... We were just silent there for a time longer and then he opened his eyes and we just looked at each other for a time. And then I was, I was just feeling very drawn to Michael, I was feeling, just feeling his love for me, feeling like I was being very loved by Michael, feeling very accepted and very comfortable and relaxed in the situation that we were in. And I don’t... I can’t really put words on to describe what I was feeling then, but I just looked up into his eyes and I said, "Michael you’re the only friend that I have in the whole world."

And what I was feeling at that time when I said that was, I realized I was in the hands of someone who was, his whole focus in his whole, his whole focus at that time was on my, my best well being. It was like I, it was almost like I felt he was just pouring his life out to me. Like I said, it’s really hard to explain these things. But uhm... and so I told him, I said, "Michael you’re the only friend I have in this whole world, the only one who truly cares for me... truly, truly cares for me in a way that there’s no self interest involved." There’s nothing that he’s going to get back from me for it.

Ms. Montoya: And Mr. Travesser, what, what happened after you told him that he was your best friend in the whole world?

Allaso Travesser: Well, we were just silent for a few minutes more and then I reached my hands up and I held his face and then I just gently drew him down toward me and kissed him on the lips. And he kissed me. And then we were, we were quiet again. I think we exchanged a few words. I don’t remember what they were and then after a short time, he told me that he was going to leave. And we got up and he left my house.

Ms. Montoya: And was this a religious experience?

Allaso Travesser: Well, I don’t think religious would really cover it. It was just far deeper than a religious experience. It was, you know it wasn’t like a ritual, it was like there was a real exchange that I experienced and that I felt. There was a real connection being made.

Ms. Montoya: Was there anything sexual about it at all?

Allaso Travesser: Absolutely not.

Ms. Montoya: And he kissed you on the lips?

Allaso Travesser: That’s correct. Yes.

Ms. Montoya: Does he kiss other people on the land? Have you seen him kissing other people?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Ms. Montoya: So that’s just typical of Michael?

Allaso Travesser: Well, he does that. I don’t know if typical is like he does it all the time. But, ah... Yes.

Ms. Montoya: And these are acts of kindness or sexuality?

Allaso Travesser: Well, they’re not acts of sexuality. Again the word kindness, I don’t think is a deep enough word for it.

Ms. Montoya: Is there a deep enough word for it?

Allaso Travesser: Well, the closest word I can come to is love. And by love, I’m not talking about, I’m not talking about the gooshy, gooshy love feeling. I’m talking about a deep regard and respect and interest in the soul who he is responding to.

Ms. Montoya: You mean responding to, for instance, your soul on that day?

Allaso Travesser: In that case, my soul or whoever he would be, if it’s a kiss or if it’s just a touch.

Ms. Montoya: And I notice you put your hand, here, when you did that.

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Ms. Montoya: Have you seen him doing that to other people?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm... Yes. Very often.

Ms. Montoya: How many years have you known Wayne Bent?

Allaso Travesser: Fifteen years.

Ms. Montoya: Can you tell the difference between Wayne Bent and the spirit of Michael?

Allaso Travesser: Oh, yes. Yes.

Ms. Montoya: What brought you to the LOR Church?

Allaso Travesser: Well, originally I had been a Christian and had been in a church, the Seventh Day Adventist Church and for quite some time. And after many years, I was just feeling like my experience in the church wasn’t really any different than an experience of anybody else in the world. It’s true, I would show up at church on a certain day and but there was... I felt like there was a lot that was missing.

And one day a friend of mine, who had previously been a friend of mine in the Adventist Church, but had gone away for several years... I hadn’t been in contact with him for several years. He called me up and he said very few words to me and, basically, the words that stood out to me was, he said... my legal name was Kevin at that time, and he said, "You know Kevin, Christians don’t sin." And when I heard those words there was something inside of me that rang, "This is the truth, This is what a real Christian is. This is the element and the beginning of the element that I have been missing."

Ms. Montoya: Let me ask you this.

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Ms. Montoya: Is it still missing?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Ms. Montoya: What’s different?

Allaso Travesser: Well, there’s a lot different. I have the Spirit of God living in me. And I’m not just a good person trying really hard to be really good. It is like I allow the Spirit of God to be my life for me and so you know in regard to what this man said, "Christians don’t sin, the Spirit of God doesn’t sin," and so my life reflects that. I don’t act out sins.

Ms. Montoya: And Mr. Travesser is that typical of people who live on the land?

Allaso Travesser: Yes. I would say it is.

Ms. Montoya: So do you believe each person who lives on the land has the Spirit of God?

Allaso Travesser: Yes, I believe that.

Ms. Montoya: And you said Michael looked out after the best well being of the souls.

Allaso Travesser: That’s correct.

Ms. Montoya: Is that true of adults and children also?

Allaso Travesser: That’s true of everyone. That’s true of everyone that walks the planet. That’s not just true of the people in the church. Michael’s whole... Michael’s whole, who he is, in regard to other souls is that is their... their best interest, their welfare, he... The Michael that I know, all he ever wants for his souls is the very best thing to happen for them.

Ms. Montoya: Thank you. I have no further questions.

Judge Baca: Cross examination.

Emilio Chavez: Thank you, your Honor. Good morning. It was Allaso Michael Travesser. Am I pronouncing that?

Allaso Travesser: That’s correct, yes.

Emilio Chavez: And, I apologize, what was your previous name before that?

Allaso Travesser: My name was Kevin Howard Jones.

Emilio Chavez: And you said you also go by the name of Praise?

Allaso Travesser: Praise.

Emilio Chavez: And you know Wayne Bent?

Allaso Travesser: I do.

Emilio Chavez: And you often refer to him as Michael Travesser or Michael?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. When did he change his name or when did he start using the name Michael Travesser?

Allaso Travesser: I believe it was in two thousand (2000.)

Emilio Chavez: And the middle name, or you know, part of the name that you’ve taken is Michael Travesser?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Ok, when did you make that change?

Allaso Travesser: I made that change, I’m not real clear on the dates, but roughly, I think it was about four years ago, maybe five.

Emilio Chavez: So, you made that change in your name after Wayne Bent made the change in his name?

Allaso Travesser: That’s correct.

Emilio Chavez: Tell us a little bit about how you made that change in your name?

Allaso Travesser: Well I went to... I went to the court house in Clayton and did the required legal proceedings to do that.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. Did you seek any guidance before you went to the court house to change your name?

Allaso Travesser: Guidance in...? Can you be more specific as to what kind of guidance?

Emilio Chavez: Did you talk to any members at Strong City about the need to change your name?

Allaso Travesser: Not that I recall. No.

Emilio Chavez: During your time on the land do you ever talk to anybody about your feelings?

Allaso Travesser: About my what?

Emilio Chavez: About your feelings?

Allaso Travesser: At times I do. At times I have. At other times I have not.

Emilio Chavez: Do you ever go to talk to Wayne Bent or Michael Travesser about your feelings?

Allaso Travesser: I have.

Emilio Chavez: And why do you go to him?

Allaso Travesser: Because he’s my friend.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And does he provide you some type of guidance?

Allaso Travesser: Yes he has. Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And on the land do you guys ever have meetings where the majority of the group is together?

Allaso Travesser: Yes, we do.

Emilio Chavez: Who speaks at those meetings?

Allaso Travesser: Often times, Michael has spoken at those meetings.

Emilio Chavez: And what are some of the things that he talks about at those meetings?

Allaso Travesser: Oh... that’s... uhm, he’s talked, he’s shared with us about prophecies that, basically what Michael has shared with us, as with anyone of us, who has shared it at meetings, has been things that Father has revealed to us. Whoever’s been speaking in a meeting has always been things that Father has shown us personally. And by Father, I’m referring to God. That’s a term I’m accustom to using.

Emilio Chavez: So Michael tells you things that God has revealed, revealed to him or revealed to you?

Allaso Travesser: Well, no. I speak of things that have been revealed to me. Michael speaks of things that have been revealed to him.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And at these meetings do people ever talk about things that they may be thinking about?

Allaso Travesser: Thinking about?

Emilio Chavez: For example, has there ever been a time or maybe somebody came during one of these meetings and said, "I’m thinking of going and building a homestead."

Allaso Travesser: No... not really that’s... not really what the meetings are about.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. Is there times during, being on the land, where people have done that in front of everybody?

Allaso Travesser: Well I don’t, I don’t recall any.

Emilio Chavez: What if somebody did say that... Strike that. I apologize. Do you know Tim Bowman?

Allaso Travesser: I do, yes.

Emilio Chavez: Did you ever witness him saying that in front of anybody?

Allaso Travesser: If I did I don’t remember it.

Emilio Chavez: If somebody did ask to do something outside of the group, how does Michael respond generally to that?

Allaso Travesser: Well... uhm... I don’t know firsthand, because I’ve never, you know, by outside of the group, I assume you’re meaning like to go live off of the land or to separate from the group. Or maybe you could be more specific about what you’re asking.

Emilio Chavez: Say somebody asked to have a horse, not live off the land, nothing like that. They just wanted to have a horse on the land.

Allaso Travesser: Ok.

Emilio Chavez: How might?... What would happen if somebody wanted to have a horse?

Allaso Travesser: Well, we don’t... We have had a practice of not having animals on the land. We’ve seen that they’re, having animals on the land has, would not be conducive to the kind of experience that we have been seeking. And so, you know, basically, you know, we haven’t wanted to have animals on the land.

Emilio Chavez: And you always use the term, "we." Let’s break down that example a little more specifically, Mr. Travesser. What if you wanted a horse? You decided for whatever reason, you wanted a horse on the land today. How would you go about making preparations to have a horse on the land?

Allaso Travesser: It’s hard to answer, because I would never do that.

Emilio Chavez: I understand. Assuming you wanted something like a horse, would you go talk to anybody about that?

Allaso Travesser: You know, it’s an interesting question because, it’s almost like it implies that I would want something outside of what we normally would want. And the way my experience has been in the land, the way I have personally experienced our life on the land is, it’s almost like we all already know what we want. We all already know what we wanna have there and what we wanna experience there. I’m sorry, I’m doing the best I can.

Emilio Chavez: So, Mr. Travesser, I guess I’ve established that you don’t want a horse. I got that.

(Much laughter in the courtroom)

Emilio Chavez: Ok. During some of these meetings,where Michael’s talking to the group, would you characterize him as a teacher?

Allaso Travesser: Yeah, I’d say very definitely, Michael’s been called to teach.

Emilio Chavez: So, he kinda helps the entire group understand. Well, what does he help the entire group understand?

Allaso Travesser: What the life of God is like. What it is to be, what it is to be married to God. What it is to, what the life of a Christian is. Those are the things he’s taught me.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. So is it fair to say he provides a guide for you?

Allaso Travesser: I think that’s fair, yes.

Emilio Chavez: Now, you talked about on direct examination that you had a healing experience with Michael?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Where did you have that healing experience?

Allaso Travesser: In my house.

Emilio Chavez: In your house?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. What room of your house?

Allaso Travesser: In the living room.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And did you?... You said you laid down?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Did you lay down on the couch?

Allaso Travesser: No. I laid down on the floor.

Emilio Chavez: What were you wearing when you laid down?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm... I think I was wearing sweat pants and a long john shirt. Somehow I remember the long john shirt.

Emilio Chavez: Was it cold that day?

Allaso Travesser: I think I was cold.

Emilio Chavez: What was Michael Travesser wearing?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm... I think just as usual street clothes, probably, something pretty similar to what he’s wearing now.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And at that time how old were you?

Allaso Travesser: Well, let’s see, I’m fifty-one now, so I must have been about fifty.

Emilio Chavez: And you mentioned you embraced Michael?

Allaso Travesser: Yes. Yeah.

Emilio Chavez: And you felt very drawn to Michael?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: What did Michael tell you during this healing process?

Allaso Travesser: Well you know, I don’t really remember him really telling me anything. The communication that we had was completely without words. He told me a lot, but they aren’t with words. What he told me was he loved me with all of his heart and that I got very clearly from him.

Emilio Chavez: Did he ever tell you to stay close to God you need to lay skin to skin?

Allaso Travesser: He’s never told me that. No.

Emilio Chavez: Have you ever heard him tell anybody that?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Emilio Chavez: Are you aware of the seven virgins or seven messengers?

Allaso Travesser: I am. Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And do you know all the women that were selected as the seven virgins?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Ms. Montoya: Objection.

Judge Baca: Alright, you may approach.

Sidebar - The sidebar discussions cannot be heard by the jury.

Ms. Montoya: With this particular witness, I didn’t question him about the seven virgins, so he’s going beyond the scope of Direct.

Emilio Chavez: Your Honor, she specifically brought this witness and improperly actually demonstrated that because he had a healing process and that it was not a sexual nature, that the two virgins A.S. and L.S. weren’t in that process of moving directly to that point, that he wasn’t there, that he wasn’t asked to be naked, that it was a different respect and that was the reason she brought this witness, your Honor.

Ms. Montoya: Still has nothing to do with the seven virgins.

Judge Baca: Well, what I see that he’s doing is he’s not specifically dealing with the details of the seven virgins. He’s using that as an impeachment, a form of impeachment in that he’s attempting to show the difference between what happened with the virgins and what happened to him. I’ll let you do that, but we won’t spend a great deal of time on it. Alright.

End of sidebar

Judge Baca: The objection is overruled.

Emilio Chavez: You know L.S., known as Healed?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: You know A.S. also?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: And you know they were part of the seven messengers or virgins?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: You’re aware that they went to Mr. Bent’s or Mr. Travesser’s residence and laid naked with him?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And you weren’t there?

Allaso Travesser: No, I was not.

Emilio Chavez: And when you had your healing process, he went to your residence?

Allaso Travesser: That’s correct.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And he didn’t ask you to lay naked?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. And you’re over the age of eighteen?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. Do you know what happened in Mr. Bent’s residence?

Allaso Travesser: In...? You mean with A.S. and L.S.? Uhm... only what... only what I’ve been told about it. I mean, I wasn’t there.

Emilio Chavez: So, you don’t know if it was the same experience that you had, that they had?

Allaso Travesser: Well, I know from Healed’s testimony that she shared, she has shared with me. Her experience was very much the same as my experience in that, in that there was a real spiritual healing, a real emotional healing that took place. When Healed had... You know what Healed has shared with me and shared with us about that, I can very personally connect to and I’m sure you're all familiar with when someone speaks of, when you're speaking with someone of an experience that you’ve had inside and internal.

Emilio Chavez: (Something said which was unintelligible, then something regarding how the witness already has answered the question)

Judge Baca: I think you’ve answered the question.

Allaso Travesser: Ok. Thank you.

Emilio Chavez: And I apologize.

Allaso Travesser: That’s ok.

Emilio Chavez: I was just trying to do a specific question. Ok. Would you agree that that spiritual feeling can be different from a physical interaction?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm... maybe you can ask that a little different way.

Emilio Chavez: Can you feel... Can you feel happiness after your healing and can that be separate from a physical interaction?

Allaso Travesser: Boy, I’m sorry, but I’m really not getting what you’re asking.

Emilio Chavez: Maybe it’s... It’s probably my question. Do you know what physically happened with A.S.?

Allaso Travesser: You mean as far as the touch and...?

Emilio Chavez: Do you personally know, besides talking with people, do you personally know what happened in that room on August second, two thousand six (2006) with A.S.?

Allaso Travesser: With A.S.? No, I don’t. I only know by what has been told me. Yeah.

Emilio Chavez: So you don’t know if that was the same as what you went through?

Allaso Travesser: I don’t, I don’t know about A.S.. No.

Emilio Chavez: And L.S., or Healed, you’ve heard her testimony and she’s revealed that she had some of the similar feelings that you had after your healing?

Allaso Travesser: Right.

Emilio Chavez: But, you don’t know physically what, from personal knowledge, what occurred in that room on July thirty-first, two thousand six (2006?)

Allaso Travesser: Personal knowledge, meaning being there and witnessing?

Emilio Chavez: That’s correct.

Allaso Travesser: Then, no. I was not... I was not there. ,

Emilio Chavez: Ok. You don’t know if, when Michael Travesser put his hand on L.S.’s heart, whether his hand was touching part of her breast?

Allaso Travesser: I know it wasn’t.

Emilio Chavez: Why do you know it wasn’t?

Allaso Travesser: Because... Because Michael told me it wasn’t and I know Michael.

Emilio Chavez: And so you believe what Michael said?

Allaso Travesser: I absolutely do.

Emilio Chavez: You wouldn’t question anything that Michael said?

Allaso Travesser: No, I would not.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. You said that he put his hand on your heart.

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Emilio Chavez: And when he put his hand on your heart, you agree that males have chests similar... I mean it’s different than females, but males have chests muscles also?

Allaso Travesser: Yeah.

Emilio Chavez: Ok. When he put his hand on your chest, was any part of his hand touching a part that would have been the male breast?

Allaso Travesser: Yes, it was.

Emilio Chavez: No further questions.

Judge Baca: Alright, re-direct?

Ms. Montoya: Allaso, the Prosecutor asked you if you changed your name after Wayne Bent changed his name. Did he ask you to change your name?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Ms. Montoya: Did someone suggest to you that you change your name?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Ms. Montoya: And you stated that he provides you guidance in the way that a brother would?

Allaso Travesser: In the way that a person who has more experience in a thing would. It’s kinda like if, if I needed guidance in electronics, I would go talk to somebody who’s had a lot of experience in electronics and they would be able to give me guidance.

Ms. Montoya: You stated, "Often times Michael spoke at the meetings." Is he the only person that speaks at the meetings?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Ms. Montoya: Is he the only person that calls the meetings?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Ms. Montoya: In fact, Anaiah called a meeting here recently, has she not?

Allaso Travesser: Yes, that’s true.

Ms. Montoya: So, anyone can call a meeting or speak at the meeting?

Allaso Travesser: Oh, anyone can do that.

Ms. Montoya: And you referred to Michael as a teacher to you?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Ms. Montoya: Might other people refer to him as a brother?

Allaso Travesser: I refer... Yes, I refer to him as a brother, as a friend.

Ms. Montoya: So, it’s not as though there’s one word that describes each individual’s relationship with Michael. Each one has their own experience, correct?

Allaso Travesser: That is absolutely correct. Yes.

Ms. Montoya: The Prosecutor asked you how old you were when this occurred. Do you have to be a certain age in order for Michael to sense that you have a need?

Allaso Travesser: No. Michael is very sensitive to people, very sensitive to their souls, very sensitive to their needs in a very uncommon way.

Ms. Montoya: And he came to your house. Had he seen you for awhile?

Allaso Travesser: No. I don’t think, you know, not for several days or maybe longer.

Ms. Montoya: And he came out on his own without you asking him to come?

Allaso Travesser: That’s correct, yes.

Ms. Montoya: And the Prosecutor seemed to indicate that maybe you wouldn’t question anything Michael said. Would he question something you said?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Ms. Montoya: So, he would trust you as well?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Ms. Montoya: Thank you.

Judge Baca: What was the date of the... this evening that you underwent?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm...

Judge Baca: It seems that it happened about a year ago or so?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm... I’d say it was probably between a year and a year and a half ago.

Judge Baca: And at these meetings that are called by Michael or others, who is generally the leader at these meetings?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm.. Well, whoever calls the meeting. If Michael calls the meeting then he’s usually the one leading out.

Judge Baca: Is he the spiritual guide of the community?

Allaso Travesser: I... I surely would say that.

Judge Baca: Does he play any leadership role at all in the community?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm... I don’t know if leadership would be the right word. I’d say he in the past has played like an administrative role, just in the functioning of the way the land functions and just kinda logistic, things about the way the land functions.

Judge Baca: During the healing process that you talked about, did Michael ask you to take any clothing off?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Judge Baca: And did he take off any clothing?

Allaso Travesser: No.

Judge Baca: Has anybody on the land not changed their name?

Allaso Travesser: Yes. You mean are you referring to legally changing it?

Judge Baca: Well, legally or otherwise?

Allaso Travesser: Uhm... you know I’m not sure. I don’t think I can be sure about an answer for that.

Judge Baca: When... I’ll unintellible words this one. Ok, thank you. Does the State have any questions based on the questions I’ve asked the witness?

Emilio Chavez: No further questions, your Honor.

Judge Baca: Does the Defense have any questions based on the questions I’ve asked the witness?

Ms. Montoya: You said in the past he played an administrative role. There are certain, there are several people who play administrative roles. Is that correct?

Allaso Travesser: Yes.

Ms. Montoya: What does Grace do?

Allaso Travesser: Grace is, we call her the ranch manager. And she has, she has had the job of making sure that the land is provided with food and all of the, basically all of the material necessities that we need, food, clothing. She makes all the arrangements to get those things for us on the land.

Ms. Montoya: Have you...

Allaso Travesser: Uhm...

Ms. Montoya: I’m sorry.

Allaso Travesser: Well, I just, I don’t know if the jury is familiar with how our government works in the land.

Ms. Montoya: If you had on your heart to take your clothes off with Wayne Bent, would you?

Allaso Travesser: If I had it on my heart, if I knew it was something that God had put on my heart, I would.

Ms. Montoya: You just didn’t do it on that particular occasion?

Allaso Travesser: No, it was not given me to do that.

Ms. Montoya: Thank you.

Judge Baca: Alright. May this witness be excused?

Ms. Montoya: Yes, your Honor.

Judge Baca: Permanently excused?

Ms. Montoya: Yes, your Honor.

Judge Baca: Alright. Any objections?

Emilio Chavez: No objection, your Honor.

Judge Baca: Alright then. You are permanently excused. Thank you for your testimony.

Allaso Travesser: Thank you.

Ms. Montoya: I would ask that he allowed to sit in the courtroom.

Judge Baca: You are allowed to remain in the courtroom, but you cannot discuss your testimony with them.

Allaso Travesser: Ok.

Judge Baca: Alright. Thank you. You may step down.

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